Curse

syphonus · Nov 03, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Just curious, why are you sticking to death in PvE? Curses has some pretty valuable stuff for it, even with only prophecies.

I don't wanna be That Guy, but it pays off to get all the campaigns if you can. EotN especially has some ridiculously powerful PvE-only skills.

ALF71BE · Nov 03, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

As for weapons:Ghial's Staff has an inherent 20% chance of +1DM[there might be others](modding your own weapons could be an option too)

IMO The Nightbringer > Ghial's Staff. +1 DM is crap when you won't even be able to increase your minion cap, and 1/3 of the skills with HCT is always useful considering the three second casts.

Btw how you make a linked text say other than "http://...etc"?

As for the original question, yes get NF. i herd heros r gud.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 03, 2008, 03:07 AM // 03:07

[url=urlgoeshere]textgoeshere[/url.]

Carinae · Nov 03, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

IMO The Nightbringer > Ghial's Staff. +1 DM is crap when you won't even be able to increase your minion cap, and 1/3 of the skills with HCT is always useful considering the three second casts.

The 30hp works against you, drop that and take the +1 DM which raises the minion level 20% of the time. A mod that sometimes helps >>> a mod that always works against you.

The best combo for a MM is a 20/20 wand and a focus with 20% HCT and +1 DM 20%.

That is all.

ALF71BE · Nov 03, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

A mod that helps 36% of the time > a mod that helps 20% of the time.

And I don't get what bad can +30hp do. Unless you think regeneration > straight heals?

Lyynyyrd · Nov 03, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

A mod that helps 36% of the time > a mod that helps 20% of the time.

And I don't get what bad can +30hp do. Unless you think regeneration > straight heals?

Bigger health = bigger sacrifices = more energy wasted by Healers to keep your red bar up = Healers run out of energy = party wipes in a battle on a rez shrine in HM = you get spawn camped to death = GAME OVER.

+30 IS BAD.

snaek · Nov 03, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by alf71be

And I don't get what bad can +30hp do. Unless you think regeneration > straight heals?

raises sac cost on botm
imo, i dun think 30hp is really a noticeable issue for an mm in either direction (- or +)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyynyyrd

Bigger health = bigger sacrifices = more energy wasted by Healers to keep your red bar up = Healers run out of energy = party wipes in a battle on a rez shrine in HM = you get spawn camped to death = GAME OVER.

+30 IS BAD.

its like an extra 5hp sac (estimating)
considering mm's should not rely on healers at all for sacrifice cost
its not bad
but...it doesnt really help that much either

bortaks claw/cesta is the best mm weapon (40/20 +1dm)
if u get incsr. golds u end up wit 20/40 +1dm

staves r generally bad in -all- cases
i'd recommed only to use to swap for 20% enchants

the -only- reason staves like ghial is popular is because:
1) its easy to get
2) its easy to use
3) it looks cooler than a wand/offhand???

but if u want the best...u need to work a lil harder to get better weapons

Lyynyyrd · Nov 03, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

raises sac cost on botm
imo, i dun think 30hp is really a noticeable issue for an mm in either direction (- or +)

its like an extra 5hp sac (estimating)
considering mm's should not rely on healers at all for sacrifice cost
its not bad
but...it doesnt really help that much either

bortaks claw/cesta is the best mm weapon (40/20 +1dm)
if u get incsr. golds u end up wit 20/40 +1dm

staves r generally bad in -all- cases
i'd recommed only to use to swap for 20% enchants

the -only- reason staves like ghial is popular is because:
1) its easy to get
2) its easy to use
3) it looks cooler than a wand/offhand???

but if u want the best...u need to work a lil harder to get better weapons

Yeah. I was just illustrating the point, although over-doing a tad.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 03, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

(Assuming 10 minions)
example1:480 base =480 /100=4.8 x 25=120hp sac
example2: 480 base+30hp from The Nightbringer = 510max /100=5.1hp x25=127.5hp sac

Only 7.5% difference,but it does work against you as Carinae stated,and She? is right on both counts

legacyofkain85 · Nov 03, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

shambling isnt elite ,flesh golem is also shambling+jagged bones= 4 minions when it dies

furanshisuko · Nov 03, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

get both, nightfall whit horrors is good btw minion master is better on a hero Imho
also heard SV was good in factions

Carinae · Nov 03, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

shambling isnt elite ,flesh golem is also shambling+jagged bones= 4 minions when it dies

er, no. 2 minions when it dies.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 04, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

IMO The Nightbringer > Ghial's Staff. +1 DM is crap when you won't even be able to increase your minion cap, and 1/3 of the skills with HCT is always useful considering the three second casts.

The 20% +1 doesn't raise the minion cap (you will always have a max of 10)But what it does do with minions for example:Flesh Golem.16DM=Lvl 26 /17DM=Lvl 28.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

The 30hp works against you, drop that and take the +1 DM which raises the minion level 20% of the time. A mod that sometimes helps >>> a mod that always works against you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

(Assuming 10 minions)
example1:480 base =480 /100=4.8 x 25=120hp sac
example2:480 base+30hp from The Nightbringer = 510max /100=5.1hp x25=127.5hp sac

Only 7.5hp difference,but it does work against you as Carinae stated

(Edit)As shown in the link on a Staff the +30 wrapping is taking the slot of the more valuable +1

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Carinae Dragonblood

The best combo for a MM is a 20/20 wand and a focus with 20% HCT and +1 DM 20%.
That is all.

BMP:Bonus Mission Pack (Remember stave's have an interent 20% HSR as of '06?)
Orange:The mods for a custom 40/40 or 40/20/20+1 set(alternative)
Red:The mods that work against you (Insightful heads taking the HCT slot)(+30 mods taking the +1 <attribute> slot)
Blue

BMP)Probable ideal mods compared to the common used Curses staves(same pattern for DM stave's)

/thread yes?

ALF71BE · Nov 04, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

+30hp clearly won't work against you when your wall is down, but whatever.

At least take +20% enchants if you're sticking with one set.

And yes I know it increases the minion level. However we all also know Flesh Golem, the only minion that will raise it's evel by two for +1 DM, is a crap skill to take. If the minions follow the hp rules that humans do, you're in average increasing their hp by four, compared to being a less likely target when they die.

And the sacrifice will be reduced to what, 2hp with AotL up? I mean, the extra sac.

Calista Blackblood · Nov 04, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

+30hp clearly won't work against you when your wall is down, but whatever.

At least take +20% enchants if you're sticking with one set.

And yes I know it increases the minion level. However we all also know Flesh Golem, the only minion that will raise it's evel by two for +1 DM, is a crap skill to take. If the minions follow the hp rules that humans do, you're in average increasing their hp by four, compared to being a less likely target when they die.

And the sacrifice will be reduced to what, 2hp with AotL up? I mean, the extra sac.

Yes,with [Aura of the lich] sacrifice is effectively quartered.

In terms of builds and weapons.If your running [Aura of the lich] it outlasts recharge by 27 seconds @ 16DM.There isn't any need to lenghten that with a staff wrapping of enchanting. Maybe for casting outside battle,and it should outlast the foes by a huge margin,with a weapon swap to a +1 during battle/minion recycle
------------

40/40 Will work
40/20/20+1 will give you the occaisional benefit of higher level minions(and is optimal primary set)
40/20/20+1 will give you the occaisional extra 2 seconds on [Aura of the lich] or higher level minions
20/20/20 Would be ideal for casting enchantment's out of battle

16DM AotL: 47 seconds /100=0.47 x20=9.4 (Seconds)
17DM AotL:49 seconds (if you get the +1)

The +30 mods still work against you(not only increasing sacrifice,but taking mod slots that would be better used for HCT head,"Mastery/Attribute+1" or enchanting.

odly · Nov 07, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Buy nightfall, get jagged bones and take a hero MM, there a lot better at it than you are anyway?

To your original question : Shambling or Golem ?
The answer is simply : No

Neither of them are worth it.

_Nihilist_ · Nov 07, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

odly, Shamblings are definitely worth it. As a MM, the one thing you don't want to happen is for your wall to fall. With Shamblings, the wall rebuilds itself (albeit a bit weaker, but regardless, it buys you more time and still does the job efficiently) without a corpse, without an enchantment that can be stripped, without fail.